Amazing how small things can have such an impact. We are talking paper or plastic, now magnify that to all the other things out there... I am feeling vertigo.
what if ALL of your plastic bags get deposited in the recycling bin and you feel sure none of them will end up floating around this old world?
Am I doing the right thing?
The problem I see is that recycled plastic items need to contain virgin plastics also. so its two steps forward and one step back.
On the other hand paper products affect ALL the creatures downstream from the paper mill, not just the ones who can eat a bag. The bleaches and filth that are spewed out from a paper mill are legendary.
The answer is cotten bags brought back again and again to the grocery store.
Now, we have just addressed the 1% problem of bags, ignoring the 99% problem of the actual packaging itself.
Not unlike worrying about the diapers themselves in the landfill and ignoring the TONS of untreated human waste contained in those diapers.
We use Chico Bags (chicobag.com); its a synthetic blend bag with handles; holds tons more than either paper or plastic is durable and when done, compresses into a stuff sack.
Yeah, yeah, yeah......global warming is natural and cyclical......blah, blah, blah...vast left wing conspiracy.........black helicopters.......chemtrails... yadda yadda....feminazis.... tree huggers.... Hillary killed JFK......
I have a couple of great shopping bags that i got at the Container Store a couple of years ago. They're made by a German company, Riesenthel, and are durable, lightweight, comfortable to carry, and handy (come in their own carrying case and fold up small enough to fit in your pocket).
A stranger rides into an Old West town and sees a crowd of people around the town gallows. Wanting to know what's going on, he collars a local and asks.
The local informs him, "They're goin' to hang Brown Paper Pete."
"What kind of a name is that?" asks the stranger.
"Well," says the local, "on his head he wears a brown paper bag, on his feet he wears brown paper bags, on his arms he wears brown papers bags. In fact, he wears brown papers bags all over his body."
"Huh," says the stranger.
"What're they hanging him for?"
Thank you for pointing this out, particularly to your American audience. I live in Ireland and have become used to reusing bags for shopping. I was shocked at the number of bags I acquired on each visit to the supermarket the last time I was in the USA.
Next environmental topic: Kitchen waste in the compost bin or wormery vs. putting it into the garbage disposal?
I've stopped using plastic bags years ago, and I always get angry when my housemates using them.
What I use are bags made of cotton or jute fiber. Fits in the pockets of your pants, reusabel, you can wash them (some really crazy people actually do iron these jute bags *shudder*) and the bags are biodegradable.
and when you are on a camping trip, and want a pillow, put your cloth in the bag and use this as pillow.
As interim solution, when I forgot a bag and I didn't get another bag of jute, I use a paper bag. Of course it goes with a lot of newpapers, ads, and paper in the paper recycling container.
I found these plastic bags at a health store here, they decay into the environment with no side effects, because they are all natural. They decay in about a month, and the stretch better so you don't have to double bag!
Only a few specialty grocery stores offer paper bags around here, everywhere else it's plastic bags. By the way, did you leave a candy cane in that wreath behind you when you left (and do these people know you are sitting on their stoop talking about the ecology)?
Boy this story is so old. I guess the mean age of your audience must be 7. This discussion has been going on for over 20 years.
HEMP is the answer. Industrial hemp. Make bags, make fuel for your car, make soap, makes just about everything and yes biodegradeable.
But I digress, yesterday we witnessed "The Art of America".
I want to introduce you to The Art of Islam. Here is a BBC documentary (close to Joanne's heart)
of an undercover reporter filming what goes on inside mosques in Britain. It'll make your plastic melt, when you listen to what is being preached in these so-called holy shrines of peace.
Boy this story is so old. I guess the mean age of your audience must be 7. This discussion has been going on for over 20 years.
HEMP is the answer. Industrial hemp. Make bags, make fuel for your car, make soap, makes just about everything and yes biodegradeable.
But I digress, yesterday we witnessed "The Art of America".
I want to introduce you to The Art of Islam. Here is a BBC documentary (close to Joanne's heart)
of an undercover reporter filming what goes on inside mosques in Britain. It'll make your plastic melt, when you listen to what is being preached in these so-called holy shrines of peace.
The true biodegradable bag exists : it is containing corn starch. Its degradation is carried out in two stages: initially the disintegration of plastic film with the attack of the starch by the micro-organisms, then the decomposition of polyester by hydrolysis and attacks micro-organisms. Once degraded, it remains only of the humus, the carbon dioxide and water. Its principal disadvantage is its cost, since it is at least 10 times more expensive than its counterpart of oil origin. Moreover, it can be really relevant only if the die of the composting of waste is developed. However, currently, this one suffers from the favours granted to the die of the incineration.
(...)
The end of the plastic, it's for when ?
We currently studies in France of other substitutes to oil, while resorting for example to the lignin extracted wood during manufacture of paper. But the process costs twice more. Other researchers launched out in the recycling of the green algas, which poison each summer the Breton beaches. By treating these marine plants, one succeeds in producing a resin which, mixed with corn starch, gives a film whose mechanical properties are comparable with that of polyethylene, but perfectly biodegradable."
So...as often in ecology, it would seem that the initiatives are particularly related to
questions of cost.
There's a state in India where it's illegal to be found with a plastic bag. Amazingly idea.
An archeologist looked at US landfills and found that the main item is... paper phone books. The problem is that although they decay on the exterior, interior pages don't and phone books are pretty large.
Have you ever tried making paper? It's simple and fun.
In other news, keep up to date on news & video & image content at:http://Muvy.org
Leron, try to find ANY article on global warming that is to use your words a "Scientifically legitimate, non-partisan study", pro or con. Science is on a sorry state these days in terms of providing information that is based on empirical standards. We have come to a point where science has become hugely politicized.
Take the case of the Harvard researcher who concluded that women as a whole had more difficulty learning math. He was called every name in the book, when the scientifically correct way to deal with the situation would to be to analyze his results. If something is found to be true or likely it is open to debate. Personal attacks have no place in scientific research.
To turn this to the global warming front, just look at how Bjorn Lomborg has been treated by peers and public. He acknowledges global warming as an issue, but challenges solutions that have been proposed and suggests looking at investment in environmental improvement in a holistic manner.
Lastly, just remember how many "gloom and doom" scenarios we are presented with that never happen. Y2K anyone? Running out of oil by 1979? We have to remember the predictions of the past to put those of the present in proper perspective.
Hmmm. For some reason I never got into jute. I guess I will make the switch as soon as I find a bag that is big enough. The ultimate solution is called "basket", but of course those are anything but convenient or flexible. I tend to re-use plastic bags until they break and then use them to collect waste for recycling. Which doesn't really matter as recycling is a big fat money-extracting lie here in Germany anyway. On the issue of bio-degradable plastics/foils: They are there. I get a catalog covered in one. Sadly, that is about the only thing I see where they are employed.
It might be a 20 yr old topic, but it caused me to think and this may become an episode on gardenfork.tv
Its interesting that even at the Park Slope Food Coop ( card carrying member here) plastic bag use is huge.
They do encourage re-using bags, and sell several kinds of bags, but even members of one of the most forward-thinking coops use more than they should.
Thanks for the links, would be handy to post them below the video.
Great episode today... very valid points, not preachy and gave a great suggestion for not contributing to the problem. Well done! I think I'm going to stop after work and get some canvas grocery bags. Thank you!
Plastic Bags is a terrible waste of resources, that ony wind up getting thrown away. Nonetheless, the ease of use makes it hard to replace them with anything else. Even here in Alaska out in the bush you will see them blowing in the wind sometimes.
Who's to blame? Dustin Hoffman and that movie....Mrs. Robinson....there was line that said the future is in "plastics"
Hope you all look at the BBC Disptach link I posted.
To use Joanne's own words: "Should we sit around and wait to see if this planet and us inhabitants really are in trouble, see if we really will be affected by the changes that seem to be scientifically proven and predicted? Personally, I don't think so."
This statement can be equally applied to the Jihadi situation spreading at a voracious rate around the world.
I agree with Joanne. The problem can be old, it does not remain present, because (scientific) solutions now tend to exist, but are not applied overall ( Cf. costs ).
The consumer society in which we live is perverse. We took practices by relations on the objects, greed, the race to extract always more raw materials, the race to produce, the race to profit.
The ecological context shows it. This cupidity is less and less adapted with our environment. We live in a society of “throw and forgetâ€. The loss or the degradation of an object, takes a little importance because the diabolical cycle of the production and consumption allows us to forget seemingly, by his quick replacement with a new one.
It is comfortable and it is what we (are conditioned to) look for. Our actual sociological model is related to its base : the social advancement and recognition, are strongly determined by the material proudly gained and exhibited. It is a pledge of safety. (Cf Evopsy)
There is another object, of size, which makes more and more part of this cycle, but this one for the actual moment, we cannot throw it or buy a now one the following day :
Our planet.
The system in which we are constrained to interact, involves that the vision on consequences of our acts, are mainly national (competition) and
intragenerational (subsystems), not on the scale of total system.
In this content, what's the importance, because we can compensate and take pleasure in this short-term comfort, balancing the factors associated with always more profits.
“I produce, therefore (s)he can buy. (s)he can consume, therefore (s)he is. (S)he is pleased to have impression to exist therefore (s)he lets me
to produce.â€
And the consequences of the production and consumption on ecology ? little importance,
because we will not probably be there to assume it
( Cf. financial sector too : debt ).
More and more, people ring scientifically, subjectively, the alarm bells, by specifying that it is vital to conjugate the verbs of the equation to the future. For the moment, the price of subsystems operations in which we evolve, is mainly material (ask/bid). Cyclic functioning allow a new start again at will. We think of controlling. Yes, but we realize that there is more and more a relation of cause and effect on the higher system : the Earth, on which we observe progressively an impact of our way of life on the climate.
Some will give each other a good conscience by mentioning that the total system functioning is also cyclic, researchs showing that the considerations have already taken place in the past.
Ok. But other studies show that our actions seem
to generate one important fact on the climate : Determinism.
Until when? until the limit? Are we already beyond ?
The price to pay for future generations will not be material, ecological, etc. but directly and meanly human.
Exorbitant, because humanity is what we have of more precious.
Joanne--Thank you for this. We all need to wake up. (I do) And we need to start, ourselves--not waitng for big gov't or business to change. We can be the start of change. This was the message of the 60's when I grew up. You have to make your life in the right direction and join in a community of change. This was one of the best video programs I have seen. Keep us together with your energy and spirit as we in the comment section can support and encourage.
If you're going on a big shopping trip, bringing your own bags is a great idea.
If you're just stopping off to pick up a few things, I find I am able to manage quite well with no bags at all. Between arms, pockets, a book bag, or a car, you can get the job done.
Speaking of reminders: this one is only 4 years old.
If you think plastic is bad, think of your little ole computer, the one you use to watch RB. post or whatever. With hi-tech gadgets expanding at an exponential rate (eg,: ipods, cells, cameras, x-boxes, blue-berries, apricots...you get the idea) apart from your compter which becomes obselete every two years... the hi-tech industry is doing even more damage than plastics evert have...here's why....
"Old computer parts hauled into California's recycling centers are more likely to wind up as toxic trash in Asia's waterways than as reused high-tech materials on store shelves, according to a report to be released today.
While many consumers are led to believe their outdated equipment will be given a new life after turning it in for recycling, most often it winds up on a boat bound for China, India or Pakistan, where is it burned in rice fields or dumped into irrigation canals.
The electronic trash, known as e-waste, is left to leach poisonous materials such as lead, mercury and cadmium into water supplies and the atmosphere. Investigators researching the report found waterways and rural fields littered with broken glass, circuit boards and plastic parts."
Thanks Nab will try again if I can get my neurons to line up correctly to carry out this task. And Kam, surprised they are still going at it. Pretty sad. One word: EGO, EGO, EGO.
Oh that was 3 words. I watched a couple of Amanda's spots on ABC---rather atrocious. And the comments section was a real hatefest..."get her off" was the operative phrase. I guess they listened.
This isn't going to change my life. RB is doing fine once again. Joanne is extremely talented. But I do wonder about the numbers. I believe there must be fewer viewers as there are very few posters compared to RB 1.0. Which is why I suggested that iPhone contest. A little marketing ploy to get Boomers to post more often.
Anyway...think long and hard as to what you are going to do with your computer when it dies. Or just put it your garage or storage...I think it would be safer for the environment. Seems you can't trust anyone these days...all you can do is try to be a person of integrity yourself, perhaps it'll rub off on others.
And that's it for my Sunday Morning Sermon....hey, leave my mount alone...I have to get down.....where's my parachute...chute!
*recent comments
Comments for friday january 19, 2007 : daily
Oh...
and...
FIRST!
http://dbrg.cs.mnsu.edu/CSRG/DataWarehousing/_reqdis/00000e8d.htm
replica watches
replica rolex watches
replica watch
replica rolex
rolex replica
Am I doing the right thing?
The problem I see is that recycled plastic items need to contain virgin plastics also. so its two steps forward and one step back.
On the other hand paper products affect ALL the creatures downstream from the paper mill, not just the ones who can eat a bag. The bleaches and filth that are spewed out from a paper mill are legendary.
The answer is cotten bags brought back again and again to the grocery store.
Now, we have just addressed the 1% problem of bags, ignoring the 99% problem of the actual packaging itself.
Not unlike worrying about the diapers themselves in the landfill and ignoring the TONS of untreated human waste contained in those diapers.
In other words, bags aint the problem!
Wood :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuQ6pMb1Jsc
Good WE,
S.
but you can get genuine biodegradable bags when you MUST have a bag.
http://www.dirtworks.net/BioBag/Bio-Bag.html
The local informs him, "They're goin' to hang Brown Paper Pete."
"What kind of a name is that?" asks the stranger.
"Well," says the local, "on his head he wears a brown paper bag, on his feet he wears brown paper bags, on his arms he wears brown papers bags. In fact, he wears brown papers bags all over his body."
"Huh," says the stranger.
"What're they hanging him for?"
"Rustling."
Next environmental topic: Kitchen waste in the compost bin or wormery vs. putting it into the garbage disposal?
I've stopped using plastic bags years ago, and I always get angry when my housemates using them.
What I use are bags made of cotton or jute fiber. Fits in the pockets of your pants, reusabel, you can wash them (some really crazy people actually do iron these jute bags *shudder*) and the bags are biodegradable.
and when you are on a camping trip, and want a pillow, put your cloth in the bag and use this as pillow.
As interim solution, when I forgot a bag and I didn't get another bag of jute, I use a paper bag. Of course it goes with a lot of newpapers, ads, and paper in the paper recycling container.
Got my first reuseable bag from my sister for Christmas from her workplace, Theo's on 13th. Haven't used it yet; need to get into a rhythm.
Good job Joanne. When are you going to leave that Web site and do something important?
HEMP is the answer. Industrial hemp. Make bags, make fuel for your car, make soap, makes just about everything and yes biodegradeable.
But I digress, yesterday we witnessed "The Art of America".
I want to introduce you to The Art of Islam. Here is a BBC documentary (close to Joanne's heart)
of an undercover reporter filming what goes on inside mosques in Britain. It'll make your plastic melt, when you listen to what is being preached in these so-called holy shrines of peace.
Part 1- 6 (the link below is Part 1--others are to the right column on Utube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&eurl=
Documentary title:
Dispatches - Undercover Mosque (1 of 6)
You have all weekend to watch...and don't go putting a plastic bag over your head afterwards...
HEMP is the answer. Industrial hemp. Make bags, make fuel for your car, make soap, makes just about everything and yes biodegradeable.
But I digress, yesterday we witnessed "The Art of America".
I want to introduce you to The Art of Islam. Here is a BBC documentary (close to Joanne's heart)
of an undercover reporter filming what goes on inside mosques in Britain. It'll make your plastic melt, when you listen to what is being preached in these so-called holy shrines of peace.
Part 1- 6 (the link below is Part 1--others are to the right column on Utube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&eurl=
Documentary title:
Dispatches - Undercover Mosque (1 of 6)
You have all weekend to watch...and don't go putting a plastic bag over your head afterwards...
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxc05_mon-village
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHaRAfxLd7g&mode=related&search=
Why not use pillowcases for shopping bags?
Problem solved... next?
http://www.arehn.asso.fr/dossiers/sacs/reduction.php
"The true bag which can be recycled.
The true biodegradable bag exists : it is containing corn starch. Its degradation is carried out in two stages: initially the disintegration of plastic film with the attack of the starch by the micro-organisms, then the decomposition of polyester by hydrolysis and attacks micro-organisms. Once degraded, it remains only of the humus, the carbon dioxide and water. Its principal disadvantage is its cost, since it is at least 10 times more expensive than its counterpart of oil origin. Moreover, it can be really relevant only if the die of the composting of waste is developed. However, currently, this one suffers from the favours granted to the die of the incineration.
(...)
The end of the plastic, it's for when ?
We currently studies in France of other substitutes to oil, while resorting for example to the lignin extracted wood during manufacture of paper. But the process costs twice more. Other researchers launched out in the recycling of the green algas, which poison each summer the Breton beaches. By treating these marine plants, one succeeds in producing a resin which, mixed with corn starch, gives a film whose mechanical properties are comparable with that of polyethylene, but perfectly biodegradable."
So...as often in ecology, it would seem that the initiatives are particularly related to
questions of cost.
S.
There's a state in India where it's illegal to be found with a plastic bag. Amazingly idea.
An archeologist looked at US landfills and found that the main item is... paper phone books. The problem is that although they decay on the exterior, interior pages don't and phone books are pretty large.
Have you ever tried making paper? It's simple and fun.
In other news, keep up to date on news & video & image content at:http://Muvy.org
Take the case of the Harvard researcher who concluded that women as a whole had more difficulty learning math. He was called every name in the book, when the scientifically correct way to deal with the situation would to be to analyze his results. If something is found to be true or likely it is open to debate. Personal attacks have no place in scientific research.
To turn this to the global warming front, just look at how Bjorn Lomborg has been treated by peers and public. He acknowledges global warming as an issue, but challenges solutions that have been proposed and suggests looking at investment in environmental improvement in a holistic manner.
Lastly, just remember how many "gloom and doom" scenarios we are presented with that never happen. Y2K anyone? Running out of oil by 1979? We have to remember the predictions of the past to put those of the present in proper perspective.
Its interesting that even at the Park Slope Food Coop ( card carrying member here) plastic bag use is huge.
They do encourage re-using bags, and sell several kinds of bags, but even members of one of the most forward-thinking coops use more than they should.
Thanks for the links, would be handy to post them below the video.
As for saving trees, watch me cut one down:http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid372302675/bclid428890184/bctid433318637
Who's to blame? Dustin Hoffman and that movie....Mrs. Robinson....there was line that said the future is in "plastics"
Hope you all look at the BBC Disptach link I posted.
To use Joanne's own words: "Should we sit around and wait to see if this planet and us inhabitants really are in trouble, see if we really will be affected by the changes that seem to be scientifically proven and predicted? Personally, I don't think so."
This statement can be equally applied to the Jihadi situation spreading at a voracious rate around the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo&eurl=
At least watch Parts 1-3, they contain most of the meat.
See you at the Quickie Mart for a slurpie.
bradpix
I agree with Joanne. The problem can be old, it does not remain present, because (scientific) solutions now tend to exist, but are not applied overall ( Cf. costs ).
The consumer society in which we live is perverse. We took practices by relations on the objects, greed, the race to extract always more raw materials, the race to produce, the race to profit.
The ecological context shows it. This cupidity is less and less adapted with our environment. We live in a society of “throw and forgetâ€. The loss or the degradation of an object, takes a little importance because the diabolical cycle of the production and consumption allows us to forget seemingly, by his quick replacement with a new one.
It is comfortable and it is what we (are conditioned to) look for. Our actual sociological model is related to its base : the social advancement and recognition, are strongly determined by the material proudly gained and exhibited. It is a pledge of safety. (Cf Evopsy)
There is another object, of size, which makes more and more part of this cycle, but this one for the actual moment, we cannot throw it or buy a now one the following day :
Our planet.
The system in which we are constrained to interact, involves that the vision on consequences of our acts, are mainly national (competition) and
intragenerational (subsystems), not on the scale of total system.
In this content, what's the importance, because we can compensate and take pleasure in this short-term comfort, balancing the factors associated with always more profits.
“I produce, therefore (s)he can buy. (s)he can consume, therefore (s)he is. (S)he is pleased to have impression to exist therefore (s)he lets me
to produce.â€
And the consequences of the production and consumption on ecology ? little importance,
because we will not probably be there to assume it
( Cf. financial sector too : debt ).
More and more, people ring scientifically, subjectively, the alarm bells, by specifying that it is vital to conjugate the verbs of the equation to the future. For the moment, the price of subsystems operations in which we evolve, is mainly material (ask/bid). Cyclic functioning allow a new start again at will. We think of controlling. Yes, but we realize that there is more and more a relation of cause and effect on the higher system : the Earth, on which we observe progressively an impact of our way of life on the climate.
Some will give each other a good conscience by mentioning that the total system functioning is also cyclic, researchs showing that the considerations have already taken place in the past.
Ok. But other studies show that our actions seem
to generate one important fact on the climate : Determinism.
Until when? until the limit? Are we already beyond ?
The price to pay for future generations will not be material, ecological, etc. but directly and meanly human.
Exorbitant, because humanity is what we have of more precious.
S.
If you're just stopping off to pick up a few things, I find I am able to manage quite well with no bags at all. Between arms, pockets, a book bag, or a car, you can get the job done.
If you think plastic is bad, think of your little ole computer, the one you use to watch RB. post or whatever. With hi-tech gadgets expanding at an exponential rate (eg,: ipods, cells, cameras, x-boxes, blue-berries, apricots...you get the idea) apart from your compter which becomes obselete every two years... the hi-tech industry is doing even more damage than plastics evert have...here's why....
"Old computer parts hauled into California's recycling centers are more likely to wind up as toxic trash in Asia's waterways than as reused high-tech materials on store shelves, according to a report to be released today.
While many consumers are led to believe their outdated equipment will be given a new life after turning it in for recycling, most often it winds up on a boat bound for China, India or Pakistan, where is it burned in rice fields or dumped into irrigation canals.
The electronic trash, known as e-waste, is left to leach poisonous materials such as lead, mercury and cadmium into water supplies and the atmosphere. Investigators researching the report found waterways and rural fields littered with broken glass, circuit boards and plastic parts."
read the rest:http://www.ban.org/ban_news/californias_old.html
...and recycling computers et al isn't as easy as the manufactuers', gov't and politicians would have you believe.
Maybe they should make The Graduate II and say the future is...computers!
Oh that was 3 words. I watched a couple of Amanda's spots on ABC---rather atrocious. And the comments section was a real hatefest..."get her off" was the operative phrase. I guess they listened.
This isn't going to change my life. RB is doing fine once again. Joanne is extremely talented. But I do wonder about the numbers. I believe there must be fewer viewers as there are very few posters compared to RB 1.0. Which is why I suggested that iPhone contest. A little marketing ploy to get Boomers to post more often.
Anyway...think long and hard as to what you are going to do with your computer when it dies. Or just put it your garage or storage...I think it would be safer for the environment. Seems you can't trust anyone these days...all you can do is try to be a person of integrity yourself, perhaps it'll rub off on others.
And that's it for my Sunday Morning Sermon....hey, leave my mount alone...I have to get down.....where's my parachute...chute!
I do not know if this remark were intended to me.
> The article, that was
> originally going to come out
> at the very end of 2006.
Anyway, I have just called BBC in London, to speak directly yo Mike Thomson, author of the article :
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6261885.stm
Here what he said to me. That makes it possible into same to understand the functioning of this media.
The articles published on the site, are directly linked with the programs broadcasted on BBC radio.
concerning the interview realiezd by the journalist, Mike Thomson, relating to this article, it was done one month ago.
I had the confirmation him that the diffusion of this information ( and thus the article) were fixed at January 15.
There no was shift of the diffusion.
That's it.
S.
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