84 Comments on wednesday march 28, 2007 : field report
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So what did they charge you with? Seems like they could be sued for false arrest, if nothing else they “PD” should pay you back for all your legal expenses.
http://www.athomecomforts.net
I too was wondering what, if anything, you were actually charged with or booked on. Possession of chalk? Operating a human-powered vehicle while under the influence of your conscience? Talking to a Reagan while maintaining a shred of human decency?
A buddy of mine got his bike seized by the NYPD a few years ago. When it came time for him to get it back, it had mysteriously disappeared. At the time the cops were doing a brisk trade in auctioning off seized bikes and other property. I can’t say if they still do; it’s been a while. But don’t be surprised if you’re sitting at an intersection in Valley Stream one day and some kid rides by on your wheels.
This pisses me off. I hope you will pursue, as you are able, actions against NYPD in whatever way makes the most sense. This is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I want my country back!
Frightening scenario. Unbelievable. Is this America?
Makes you think that the stuff on this website
might really be true.
http://www.infowars.com/police_state.html
Scroll down to the links under the heading:
Intelligence Agencies Spy on Peace Groups, Religous Organizations
Sounds like to me, that New York’s finest, are overpaid and underworked. Political correctness set by a law enforcement agency. Priority set by whom, City Fathers, or by the police themselves. I sometimes wonder what our country has become. Have we become a Police State.
The police are and have been a force of occupation. Terrorism is giving them the license to break the law not obey it. I agree with you in asking who polices the police. I for one would be willing to trade much of this illusionary security for freedom. Those brave soldiers who are fighting and dying for this country, is this what they are defending? I doubt it. As many vets will attest, when protesting the actions of the government their sacrifices hold little currency.
Yes this unfair and the boggyman TERRORISM is the reason we are losing our dignity as a free nation…time to pressure the politicians to change or time for a THIRD Party in 08!!!!!
Am I missing something? In the video it looks like you are spray painting the sidewalk.
If you are, that’s vandalism. Why should the taxpayers be forced to clean up your mess?
You should find another way to express your political message. Imagine if someone painted
a message on the sidewalk, near your home, that was flat out distasteful to you. Would that
be OK?
Also the police should be required to return your personal property. They should be forced
to play by the rules.
Red
The bike was spraying chalk, not paint. The artist did that on purpose so no one would accuse him of vandalism.
Probably should have carried a bucket of water w/him, sloshed it down & asked “What words?”
chalk, the man said. chalk. Harmless, temporary, inventive, delightful chalk.
yeah, chalk. little kids draw on the sidewalk with chalk. unless the pd is going to arrest every kid playing hopscotch on the sidewalks, then this is not vandalism.
i’ve recently been rereading 1984 and it makes me sad.. . when i think how when i originally read it, the book didn’t seem possible at all.. . but now, reading it again, it all seems possible.. . sadly .. .
Same cops doing the same things they did during the Vietnam War. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Demand justice and fair play but don’t be surprised when it’s denied.
You have all the support of my friends and I. I’m an active protester and free speech advocate. The idea of the police running recon on it’s own citizens who plan to engage in constitutionally protected speech makes my blood boil. Power to you my friend, and good luck. Know that your work will make tomorrow a better place.
As a fellow cyclist, I say the NYPD owes Josh a Bicycle.
Send them a bill! maybe they\’ll ….na.
Nice job producing this report Josh and Jen. I hope now the country is ready to hear these accounts of what happened to you and others like you and we will finally see some retribution. America is a free speech zone!
Good show, Joshua. We’ve discussed the bust, a definitely unrighteous move on the part of (maybe) sincere people who haven’t read anything without pictures in it since high school. All of the predictions, implicit and explicit, in “Bikes Against Bush” have come to pass. There must be some satisfaction and vindication in that. And without trivializing your jail stay in the least, let’s think on this: Scooter Libby is down for a long, long count. Interior’s Steve Griles was convicted for lying to Congress. And Alberto Gonzales’s cronies are now wishing they had used chalk to write those damning emails. I think we’re looking at very serious jail time for a multitude of Bushies. And The Decider himself? The born-again Christian who thinks nothing of blowing countless thousands to Kingdom Come, including 3,000+ of our own guys? Even Republicans are thinking Impeachment — some of them out loud. Joshua, everything that goes around comes around. Thanks for giving the wheel a shove.
Perhaps they arrested him becasue he was not wearing a helmet. Either way, that’s TOOOOO many cops for one guy on a bike, breaking the law or not.
Nope. New York State law states that only cyclists under the age of 14 are required to wear a helmet. It would have been smarter to wear a helmet, but not illegal.
Seems like some more of the “freedom” we are spreading in the world!
Don’t be discouraged.
By the way, AWESOME technology on the bike! - Steve
Speechless…
Dear Josh,
This is a wonderful piece! Thank you for mentioning your grant from Franklin Furnace.
Long, long ago, when the Culture Wars were just cranking up, Joe Papp, founding producer of the Public Theater and a witness to the McCarthy hearings, said “You talk to every single person who will listen!” So you’re doing the right thing, Josh.
All best wishes,
Martha
I’m not sure what the rules are for NYPD, but aren’t they supposed to charge you with something? I mean, they had a Captain there who should have known the law.
This was harassment, plain and simple. I hope NYPD pays dearly for this one.
It’s too bad that Josh was saw fit to “protest the Republican National Convention.” The convention is just as much a part of the political system in our country as the Democratic National Convention, and should be allowed to take place in relative decorum. Protesting over a particular grievance may be more easy for me to swallow, but not just a vague “I hate Bush because the New York Times said I should.” You probably couldn’t have asked for a better outcome, and I’m sure that what happened to you is exactly what you wanted to happen. You got at least your 15 minutes! As far as the graffiti, I know it was only chalk, but I wouldn’t want anybody trashing my property, no matter that it would probably eventually wash away. And I wasn’t surprised that a mess of cops showed up — dude, there was a camera! They want their 15, too! I can’t wait to hear the other side of the story tomorrow on RB! Fair and balanced!
Please don’t needlessly make this a partisan issue. The fact that he was protesting the Republican convention is not important. He could have been protesting the Democrat convention or protesting the protesting, and it would still be wrong for the cops to treat him that way. The fact that he was arrested and his bike was stolen, but did nothing illegal and nothing that warranted an arrest is what’s wrong. thnx
iSmart for a non-partisan and informed critique of Josh (and me) see \”A Cop\” below.
I think it is uterly incredible. When did they (who ever they might be) get rid of the first ammendment.
Unlike most of the other posters I don’t know what the NYC law covering vandalism says, perhaps one of you can summarize it for us.
I am more concerned that this is the second report of American investigators operating in Canada.
In the other news article Army CIC agents introduced themselves as Toronto Police while searching for a deserter in Toronto.
http://www.thestar.com/article/195243
Joanne, I bought and used my first re-usable grocery bag. I decided I had far too many bags saved when the cupboard door wouldn’t close. Count it as a partial victory.
i cant get on the cops for being suspicious of what your bike was emitting and wanting to conduct some on scene investigation and questioning. But apparently it didnt go down like that. So they knew it was an art piece using chalk before hand but still took you in and confiscated your belongings…. I dont like that, but I also would take the experience with a grain of salt and move on. Worse has happened to me and some are wrongly imprisoned.
But if it becomes known as fact that money went into surveilling non-violent and innocent artists, thats a problem.
You need your bike back!
This is outrageous. It seems the right to know what you’re being arrested for is no longer standing in the USA. Americans should stand up and fight against this abuse.
Remembering time during the Vietnam war, cops can do what ever the hell they want to do. At least they didn’t beat you. Though I think now most of our law enforcement do the best they can. I wonder who gave them their orders to harass you. I doubt it was a NYC cop.
Keep up the good work and I hope you get your bike back.
Amazing. Frighteningly amazing. I’m not saying that I’m a bleeding heart, nor do I agree with everything the ACLU does, but FAR too many people are eager to give up our basic freedoms for one cause or another. THey refuse to believe that it’s a slippery slope or that this very thing can then become common place.
I wonder if it’s possible to sue the dept for unlawful arrest in light of this latest revolation. Need money for the lawyer, put it on your blog and you’ll have more than you’ll need. A class action suit. Make the bastards pay.
OK.. I’m going now to get ready to have my taxes audited. I’m sure this comment will be read by someone that sees ME as a threat, too.
What happened to you was extremely disturbing, Josh … even more sickening is what’s been happening to the country under the misrule of our Bush league president. Hopefully the tide is turning.
Great show, J & D!
I think we have to fight, that’s what. We who have ways of communicating to the public (still and hopefully forever) should bitch about this until everyone knows about it. I don’t think any of us should sit back and ignore what seems to be going on lately. Bravo to you, keep kicking ass.
I’m halfway afraid to post here becuase I’m credentialed for access to many buildings in DC. My day job requires it. This is just sad. Who are the rights police? Are there and politicians brave enough to stand up to this crap? Doubt it.
Look, I believe LEGAL intelligence and surveilance are necessary. The world is dangerous, and having had the pleasure of meeting Josh (and Jen!), I can tell you, and anyone else monitoring this, HE is NOT!
Great, great spot!
It’s an outrageous and obvious use of state power to suppress dissent.
iSmart — The Constitution explicitly protects speech, and the Founders intended that the highest degree of protection should be given to political speech.
Political parties, on the other hand, evolved after the Constitution was ratified and are not mentioned in it. Although the term “political party” was not yet current, George Washington made opposition to “factions” one of the main themes of his farewall address of 1796.
As for “trashing” property — isn’t that a public sidewalk? I’ve seen a lot of graffiti in Manhattan, but that’s the first time I’ve ever seen a van-load of police hustle over to seize the offender.
I agree that Rocketboom should have talked to the NYPD, the Republican Party, and probably the ACLU, and that those responses should have been included in their story. Rocketboom’s journalism tends to suffer from amateurish omissions, not all of them ideologically driven.
sull — It’s sadly true that there have been far more egregious offenses against free speech, but even so, this abuse of state power should cause the blood to boil in every American.
Dude!, you painted on the side walk. That is evil. Vandalism is always, always, always an evil, bad thing. It is pollution. Bush sucks, but spray painting on a public space is a bad, bad thing. Use your voice. Use the Internet. Don’t paint one other peoples’ (or public) property.
You were spraying messages on the sidewalk. It doesn’t matter if it is chalk or crayon or pencil. That is public property and even if you have a message that pleases everyone, you still don’t have the right to deface the property, even temporarily. Even if the way you do it is very clever. I’m sure that is what your lawyer told you, yet you omitted that from your story. Give me a break, you were not arrested for the vandalism. That was a tool they used to control you while the convention was in town and they could figure out if you were a nut or just a clever college kid. The reality is there are no known ways to quickly and accurately discern one from the other. You must be practical in these things and what they did very effectivly neutralized you until they were confident in what you were about. Not nice, but effective. How did they know you were not devising some bomb or other dispersal device? In a crowded city, a nut with a bike full of white powder spraying it out on the sidewalks is somthing to worry about. In 2004, we were all very worried about that kind of thing. Most of us still are. You sit back with your clever mind making fun of those public servants, yet you risk nothing. I suggest you try to put yourself in their position and decide what you would have done with you and all the other crazy idiots in the city that really were trying to hurt people at that convention. There were many.
Yes, you should have got your bike back. Did you actually request it within the first year after your case was adjudicated or did you sit on your ass expecting the police to deliver it to your house? No agency I know of has the resources to do that. The cops do not get the money from the auctions, the city gets it added to its general fund. Most police and other agencies have to budget at least one year in advance and no amount of auction revenue or tickets will change their budget. FYI. You seem like a smart kid and I hope you will put that mind of yours to good use and help people rather than just being a observer/comentator.
Mr. Policeman, I think most cops have common sense, if not, they should go in for anti-terrorism training. One look at Josh tells you this is not a nut job. If you had a dialogue with him, you’d realize nutjobs don’t have that kind of intelligence or demeanor. A potential terrorist would acts suspicios under duress or confronted by a militia the way Josh was. This is just a blatant abuse of Cop Power and an infringement on Free Speech. Remember the 1st Amendment? Would you go after some wall painting graffiti guy with this amount of force? No!!! Dubya Bush’s creation of Homeland Security has caused a nation to turn against itself.
The true potential individuals who threathen the USA –those of origins from countries who committed 9/11, yes Saudi Arabia (and the like) are allowed into the country by the thousands (6,000 this year alone) no questions asked. But take some white, artist-activist with a creative stance and you guys overreact. Wake up, it’s the airports, the ports, and the mosques that should be under strict surveillance and secured, and yes, there are quite a few suspicious characters at those locations that make Josh look like a kindergarten student. All I read from the Bushites is how many terror cells are all over America. So your response is to attack, detain and harass American college kids like Josh. What, were the cops having a “Bad Donut Day”? Bush is very proud of the insanity he has wrought on the American public. This post is a CODE RED-go hide under your bed, sniff some real white powder, cause the russkies are coming.
A Cop: I’ve worked closely with law enforcement in 20 different cities and I understand, especially in the midst of a convention and all the talk about protesters trying to hurt people, how and why they reacted.
It’s still wrong.
As pointed out elsewhere, there was no hazmat scene called, so somebody must have figured out pretty quickly that the dude on the bike was not spraying anthrax.
You correctly state what the cops in question did: They yanked him off the street and kept him under control until they could figure out what to do. I’ve spent a night or two in the tank under similar circumstances myself, without ever having broken the law, because I was near a protest when the cops drew a circle around the crowd and arrested everyone inside it, just to be “sure.” And while I have moved on, got past it, etc., I think you’re too flip in suggesting that the biker do so here. Getting your arms chained behind you and being tossed in the wagon is traumatic for a law-abiding citizen. Guys who hook up real criminals every day, I think, can make too little of that.
Oh, and they stole his bike, let’s not forget. Your comments on budgets and auction revenue are absolutely correct, and I erred in making it sound like there was a direct connection. But I also know firsthand that NYPD cops who send a lot of property to the auctions get brownie points for it. And, let’s not forget that some items never make it that far. I had a cop friend who built a very nice race car out of pieces that somehow never made it to Pier 25.
There’s a mess of stories in the papers this week about all incredible abuses of power by the NYPD in connection with the convention. This doesn’t help that situation.
And while I respect the work that cops do and understand at least a little about the pressures they work under, you can’t just say “tough luck, kid” and call it a day. Being a good cop requires more.
Scary! This is very reminiscent of East Germany. We just watched the movie, “Other People’s Lives.” Sounds just like your situation. Artists, etc. were being watched by the police without their knowledge. How can we stop it?
A Cop makes some good points, but he needs to understand that political speech is not the same as vandalism or commercial speech. Let’s face it, the Republicans and their supporters did a considerable amount of “vandalism” with their convention. Political speech is (supposed to be) about what is right and wrong, not who has the most money or who is in power. And the police are one public institution we expect to be fair and allow reasonable protest against those in power.
Still, A Cop makes a very good point when he reminds us that “In 2004, we were all very worried…” Yet, of course, he’s wrong when he says Kinberg “risks nothing.” A law enforcement official gets paid, benefits and has the authority of the law behind them, plus gets a nifty uniform and a gun.
I would suggest to A Cop that he take his own advice and try putting himself in the position of a very concerned citizen trying to make a point with his “clever mind” and have handcuffs put on him. And, while Mr. Kinberg might wear in as a badge of honor, for many having an arrest record is a very frightening think. Kinsberg risked a lot, and I respect that. And, if he thinks about it, I think A Cop would respect it as well. I hope so.
Funny how nobody, but nobody ever brings up the tactics used to control those who had their own agendas at the Democratic National Convention in Boston. It was just as nasty, oppresive and heavy handed in Boston as it was in NYC. But, hey nobody ever complains against Democrats (the party of the people: accent on “party.”) I’m sure that video of the protester “pens” blocked off streets, and “spying” that was done will never see the light of day. Because, as I said, Democrats can do no wrong. Only when Republicans do the exact same thing is it treated as some sort of crime. Like here. Hmmm.
Evidence???
a good way to judge justice is to ask: was the reaction by the police appropriate for what Josh was doing? Why were all those police needed at the scene? And in the end, when the police admitted there was no wrong doing…why did Josh have such a difficult time even getting only some of his gear back? No matter what political bent you are…this kind of police treatment is sad.
true innovation. bravo, josh.
A Cop — The mob of police officers on the scene did not include any hazmat specialists that I could see, and none of the police took any action that indicated they thought the civilians in the area were in any kind of safety risk from the “white powder.”
I think it does make a difference whether you use something temporary, like chalk, or something more permanent, like paint. Apparently the city agreed, since no charges were ever filed.
What’s the penalty in NY if someone other than a police officer steals a bike?
tycobrahe — You can’t be serious. Never mind Boston. The most infamous and most widely-discussed anti-protester violence at any party convention in American history was at the Democratic National Convention in Chicago in 1968.
Chicago 1968: I was there and saw what happened. Now there was a good ‘ole Democratic Mayor who really knew how to deal with things. Hmmm. Must have been all Republicans protesting back then, huh?
talk about bikes you could sell to every guerilla marketing agency in the world, ps i got tickets to wu-tang and rage against the machine at randalls island today
I suspect(ed) this will lead to IM smart-mob SWARMING as a type of protest. As I was searching for information on the past use of the swarm (for a online story a few years back), I found that a lot of thought has been added to the subject.
Basically when people protest, they will say get to this town at this day. Then get various groups IM locations to go protest. Possibly for a short period of time (1-2 hours), then disperse. Coordinate with reporters for effect. This would keep the police on their toes, and help prevent them from eliminating peoples right to free speach.
Shouldn’t people be allowed to protest anywhere they want, as long as they do not interfere with others, or break laws? Apparently not. Liberty by the government is slowly being abandoned.
Great Rocketboom!
I disagree with the man who said he was a cop. You can’t just apprehend anyone who is sending a political message because its potentially violent. Anyone with any message is potentially violent, but we don’t arrest people handing out fliers in the streets if they’re coupons do we?
Big brother is watching. Sad, but true.
Great episode.
Right on Josh. Glad you shared this story. I too was arrested in 2004 during the RNC for simply being on the sidewalk at the wrong place at the wrong time. I was held for 40 hours along with over 1800 others. You can read about my arrest here. It doesn’t surprise me in the least that activists, artists and citizens who’ve done nothing other than express their opinion were surveilled. Hopefully, the various civil cases against the city will help illuminate just how widespread this practice was.
that\’s great engineering — kudos.
sucks that you were arrested and had your bike seized… has any gov official or organization (ie: state congressperson or ACLU) approach you about taking on your case? at the very least, you should get your bike back or compensation for the seized gear.
getting justice by nailing the person incharge of giving the green light to arrest you — well…
josh kinberg = my hero
Things like this happen far too often, and we here in Italy know that very well… during the Berlusconi \”regime\” they even tried to make satire illegal, and they partially succeded, people who were saying things the government didn\’t like just lost their jobs, were arrested, beaten up badly during demonstrations (Genova - G8, anyone?). The good thing is, while the official media often is afraid to say things clearly… there fortunately are other ways now to talk! To let people know! The only thing we can do is to take action, let them know they cannot act as they want!
So you have my full support! And by the way, I didn\’t know about that bike action, it\’s really a brillant idea! Will be talking about you on Monipodio.net.
Hannes
Good story, sadly I\’m not suprised by it.
But the technology was cool, like a permamnent POV tool.
That piano music made me want to bury a puppy.
My 2 cents on this, from a free speech perspective: http://wordlily.wordpress.com/2007/03/28/police-leave-their-city-to-spy/
It’s truly sad, but more than that: scary. We must not let our freedoms be usurped.
are you part of the lawsuit against the city? i know eddie codel is part of it.
This is not a free speech issue.
It’s a common courtesy issue. Speech is protected (you can say what you want), but there are reasonable limits on how and where to express those ideas. Painting them (water soluble or not) on the sidewalk is not cool because it is a form of pollution (graffiti) and infringes the rights of the people in the neighborhood. The same goes for screaming at the top of your lungs in front of someone’s house - it’s not what one says, but how one says it.
Frank Zappa, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin - that’s free speech.
This is painting the sidewalk. Get real.
It\’s really an issue of harassment and abuse of power. And politicizing the police.
This really annoys me. In England we\’re allowed to say wahtever we like about Blair and all the other idiot politicians any way we like (within the law) and the police doesn\’t take any action at all on what we say.
I loved the idea of spraying messages on the pavements with your bike, and it really angers me how the NYPD wouldn\’t tell you what you\’d done.
Thanks for sharing your story. And thanks for caring enough about our country to try to make an artistic statement about our present leadership! I\’m sad that you got caught up in precisely the kind of thing that we oppose, and thank you again from the bottom of my heart for being willing to put yourself out there regardless of the consequences. (That there *shouldn\’t have been any* consequences only underscores the problem, doesn\’t it??)
We are so far on the road to fascism that it truly scares me.
Yes you are. The world was stunned and disappointed when you elected a neo-con, white supremist government the first time. When you did it the second time it would have been laughable if the consequences for world peace, stability and the evnironment weren’t so dire.
Tycobrahe’s responses are so typical for the red-neck right. Instead of making an inteligent comment about something postive the current administration is doing, Tycobrahe merely points to the Dems and retorts “but you did it too”. The type of response I would expect from a four year old in a school yard.
Canadians, on the whole, love our neighbours to the south. My brother lives in the US and I have several very close friends who call America home. It has been a wonderful place to live and visit. The past six years, as iMagic points out, has you racing toward a fascist state where the only rights that matter are the aspirations of the White House.
Josh has every right to hold them accountable for an abuse of his civil rights. Don’t denegrate the argument by nit-picking about riding on the sidewalk or vandalism. This is a much bigger issue than that. A Cop - we all have respect for the risks that police and fire fighters take every day. Holding the administration accoutable for abusing civil rights should not be interpreted as a lack of support for those individuals. I hear the same crap about the war in Iraq. Just because someone asks the question “should we be in this war?” does not directly translate to “I hate people who wear the uniform and hope they all die”. That, too, is a childish interpretation.
Sadly there is a growing neo-con movement in Canada as our right-wing adminstration implements some of the same idiotic removal of civil rights as Dubya did. I have faith, however, that enough of us in Canada will have the same level of conviciton and bravery as Josh did to stop it before it goes too far.
This seems appropriate viewing in this situation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjkNW1vnZZs
This kind of thing is what keeps me thinking about moving to a different country. But with globalisation I wonder, what protection will that be? Good story, keep us informed.
The \”it\’s just chalk\” argument held by so many carries no weight. If you went to someone\’s sidewalk or the side of their establishment and wrote, with chalk mind you, anti-Semitic blurbs, swastika\’s, or other hateful things, can you still play the \”it\’s just chalk card?\” No, you cannot. While I understand this is a slightly apples and organges comparison, to some people, it is not. Saying such derogatory remarks about our elected government and officials does cut as deep as a remark about someone\’s skin color, religion, or sexual preference. Some people still believe that our government does have the people\’s best interests in mind. NYC, of all city\’s deserves to be paranoid. For christ\’s sake, give them a pass. That city has endured so much in the last 15 years. Allow the police, allow those who are to serve and protect us the right to be slightly paranoid and overcautious. I would rather them be overcautious than under. If our police sag in questioning and suspiciousness of shady characters and terrorists acts do occur on US soil, then liberal media and those on this blog will be saying we did not do enough to keep these people out. Where is the balance? Hateful, evil people wear many disguises today. Some look like innocent college kids with a nifty bike. While Josh on the outside looks harmless, so do many of the people venturing into markets in Baghdad, killing hundreds in seconds. So did the terrorists who boarded flights the morning of 9/11/01. They all looked harmless. That is the problem. That is what makes it difficult to discern good from bad.
I for one, applaud the NYC Police, thank god everyday they are here and support a president who has successfully kept the terrorists from striking again when we were, as a nation, so vulnerable.
1. Do you even know what the 1st Ammendment of your constitution says? In case you don\’t and don\’t know how to look it up it clearly protects people\’s right to practice their religion AND their right to peaceably assemble and petion the government. Your comparison is not \”slightly\” apples and oranges, it is completely apples and oranges. BTW, isn\’t \”slightly\” apples and oranges like \”slightly\” pregnant? It either is or it isn\’t.
2. Yep, that darn picko communist media (like Rush Limbaugh and Fox) sure are awful hard on that poor little old George Bush. (see my comment about international media later)
3. Waging war against a country that was never involved in any of the terrorist activity associated with the terrorists attacks on US soil and causing the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent lives will NOT keep the terrorists from striking again in the future.
4. If you think NYC has had a tough go, try talking to some people in Belfast, Jerusalem or Bagdad. What happened on 9/11 was horrific. I don\’t make light of that. We in North America are just now experiencing what other countries have lived with for a very long time.
People like you are concerning. You will rationalize away all civil rights in the name of security and live the rest of your lives in fear. There is a place in the world that is pretty much what you describe. No one dares criticize the government, people do not protest and they generally live in fear of the government scooping them up and throwing them in jail if they are even suspected of thinking about protesting against the government. The country? Communist China. The Americans that I call friends consider China a country that abuses civil rights and yet you \”applaud\” the vary same actions against your fellow citizens.
Perhaps you could pause for a moment and do some research. Read some international media for a change rather than the US centric version you\’re being fed. Understand how the rest of the world feels about your beloved President and the damage he has done to world peace. You might just alter your view and be a little less thankful for what George Bush has done to your country and the world.
Concerned Canadian - You make some good points. I will give you that. However, like so many of the liberal media journalists I read and listen to, you are quick to criticize. Listen to your rather adolescent tone: \”Do you even know what the first amendment of your constitution says?\” \”….darn picko communist media (like Rush Limbaugh and Fox) sure are awful hard on that poor little old George Bush.\” \”You will rationalize away all civil rights in the name of security and live the rest of your lives in fear.\” Seriously. I had the opportunity to study and live in Denmark for six months. (FYI, this is me \”pausing to do some research\”) While there I had 12 Danish dormmates. Needless to say, you learn a lot about others when you live that way. Denmark is very peaceful, and VERY well educated society, especially when it comes to current events. I say this only to alert you to the fact that I have stepped outside of my country spent time in my young life to learn how others live and how they think about us (mostly unfavorably). However, in the same breath, these very well educated Danish folks will also say they thank God for a presence like the US to stand ready and play watchdog over the world\’s affairs. I would love for your Canadian military to ever step in, and defend our world against all the hate and evil acts. Seems to me like these very United States have bailed out many of the worlds countries and asked for NOTHING in return. You have heard the saying…\”if not for us, the French would be speaking Deutsch right now.\” That is awful true. My grandfather was killed in Holland in WWII and now I get to see French people, the young one\’s at least, sending hateful messages back to the US about how awful we are and how we are the root of the world\’s problems. Thank you France. My grandfather believed in battling against evil. At the time it was Hitler. Now the enemy is much different. Now, my two brothers, who are stationed somewhere in Iraq right now. Exactly where, I do not know, are defending my right to argue with you right now about this. Yes, I understand the 1st amendment Concerned Canadian. Better than most. Likley, better than you. So to address your \”pausing to do some research,\” trust me, I have. I live it with email updates from my brothers, my research of my familiy\’s past and what I witness with my own eyes when two large towers crumbled to the ground for no reason one summer day. NO REASON! Remember Canadian, my government, not yours bears the brunt of the world\’s distress. Never has Canada been \’first on the scene.\’ When that day comes, I will be grateful and thankful to Canada. I unfortunately, never see that day coming. Until then, I will board my flights (I travel 100% and fly quite often), \”live in fear\” as you put it, and thank God my government does act a little paranoid at times. This paranoia keeps my brothers defending me, keeps funds going to our military to protect them, and all my neighbor\’s to the north a little safer.
Go Beavs - I accept your comment that, out of frustration, I was critical. In return I offer you an apology. I therefore will only point out the inaccuracies of your reply and exit the debate.
I encourage you to continue to be curious about what the rest of the world thinks and go beyond blogs like this one and read what the international press is reporting. Your perspective is, in my opinion, still very US centric. You seem prepared to support George Bush irrespective of what civil liberties he takes away. I will restate my comment about the similarities to China and comment on Nazi Germany since you brought them into the discussion. If you compare the steps taken by Hitler to limit the civil liberties of the German population in the mid to late 30’s there are some (and I repeat some) frightening similarities to the moves by the current administration. Hence imagic’s comment about fascism.
I am not here to defend the record of the Canadian military - I didn’t think that was the core of the debate. However, now that you have made the suggestions that you have I will make some comments about the role that we play and played in order to put some facts on the table.
Our role in military actions has for many years been one of peace keeper. That is an important role, but a very different role than world police force.
Please do some more research on the facts concerning WWII. If you study it, you will find that the US was not “first in” (or second or third). Who was? Beyond the European countries that were directly impacted it was Canada, Australia and New Zealand (and others). The US entered the war several years later and only when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. Only then would the American people support the President’s desire to enter the battle. Up until then the US ignored Churchill’s pleas for help as Nazi German threatened to take over the British Isles. Millions of lives were lost in WWII and I’m sorry to hear that your Grandfather was one of them. I lost several Uncles and my father and many other uncles came home but were never able to talk about what they experienced. Purely looking at statistics, because of the later entry into the war, comparing deaths in WWII as a % of the population of the countries involved the US would rank near the bottom. That’s not a judgement - merely a fact.
When your President declared war on Afghanastan Canadians and the Canadian military were right beside you. The mission as we understood it was to find the terrorists responsible for 9/11 and shut them down. Before that was finished, the US military shifted focus to Iraq who had no such involvement. Again, no judgement, merely the facts. The Canadian military is still engaged in full battle with the Taliban trying to prevent the terrorist camps and cells from forming again. We, too, have young men and woman coming home in body bags and/or with critical injuries. They, too, are fighting for our collective freedoms.
Other related firsts? Canadian police and firefighters were one of the first on the scene to help the NYPD and FDNY post 9/11.
Canadian disaster relief workers were first on the ground in New Orleans post Katrina. We were there before any other city or state responded and several days before any help came from the White House.
In the international press you would have read over the past many years significant praise for the role that the US have played and continue to play as a world military force. Where the criticism comes is when your government steps over the line and begins to use military force in inappropriate ways. Particularly when it’s politically motivated.
I hope that your brothers come home safely. I also hope, however, that the brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers, etc of the people of Iraq who are merely trying to live their lives make it safely as well. As I pointed out earlier, the body count is now in the hundreds of thousands.
The right for people like Josh to express an opinion against actions such as these are protected in your constitution. It’s what has made America one of the places that many people who do not enjoy that freedom long to be part of. Blindly supporting an adminstration that removes those freedoms, in my opinion, takes away the very fabric of what has made you such a great nation for so very long.
THAT is why I remain a Concerned Canadian. It’s because I care, not because I take any joy in being critical of others.
The constitution does not protect the right to paint the sidewalk. One must not infringe the rights of others when exercising ones rights. It’s that simple.
You could become an ACLU member…
The fact you got arrested with no charges pisses me off. I\’ve seen this erosion of civil liberty happening over the years, and this heavy handed bullshit really annoys me.
Please let me know how to build the bike. Is there a website with plans & schematics?
I want to build one, and you should have a site that shows how to build that chalk thing … let me know if you need hosting …
(Call me an old geezer at 48 - I\’m a Navy vet, law abiding citizen and proud father of 4, and they\’re all in your age group. My oldest is quite the young radical these days.)
If DuB Ya was riding that bike it\’s not much good now. The way he\’s prone to crashing, I\’m sure the laptop couldn\’t have survived.
Later, mike
http://www.geekonabike.com
What can I say dear Josh,
America now is not the America George Washington started.
We may fight and shout out loud, it will not help. This is history repeating itself. Good turns bad, bad turns good over time, ultimate power corrupts ultimately. How can we stop it. Somebody said \”I want my America back\” so do I, but we as the people are too weak to get it back. We don\’t have control because we are not united, we are not organized. That\’s why they will win. I know it sounds pessimistic but what can I say.
T.
Just wanted to say how cool it was that Xtracycle donated the bike in the first place. Check them out - sport utility bicycles for a crowded planet: http://www.xtracycle.com/
…also, what happened to all the Critical Mass bikes that were confiscated at the same time? Bicycle amnesty!
Josh…still reading these comments a month later? If so, let me say that I admire your spirit. However, I am convinced there is no hope for us. The corporations have taken over the planet, and they will continue to marginalize and eliminate those of us who think. Let\’s face it, we\’re on the brink of global calamity the likes of which humans have never known. We have to go underground and wait it out. Let the sheep have their rapture, then there will be more water and food and land for us realists. In the meantime, stock up on cannibas seeds and enjoy A/C and power windows while you still can. Those of us that survive will do so only by going underground. We can reemerge in friendly places once the empire has splintered.
You had the art skill, all the technical skills to pull this off but you lacked one essential element, a legal teem to back you.
You should sue the city for the bike and gear, it was not a cheep setup.
You should sue for damages for cutting off your free speech at a critical time.
You should sue for a declarative judgment that a a temporary message written in chalk on the sidewalk, expressing a political opinion is allowable free speech like hand bills, and not vandalism.
You should sue for damages, the loss of access to the bike requiring that you take public transport or cars until it is returned or repayment made.
You should sue for punitive damages, asking how much money in an award would be enough to make the police department think twice about doing this injustice again.
You will win on the bike, and this should also get you a win on your attorneys costs and fees. You might win on the personal damages and you may well win on the declarative judgment that political messages written on the sidewalk in chalk are protected speech.
If you don’t win on the extra punitive damages you would still be the winner, but the court would have given the police some break. On the other hand if you win the punitive it would be rich, and you would be better off.
Ddave made the cooment that I’m most curious about–on whose order was this surveillance conducted? It doesn’t seem to me like the police came up with this idea on their own. The police are supposed be a reactive force. Pre-emptive strikes like this are generally not their thing, unless directed by some higher authority. Hmmmm.
Hey Josh, you still have the ability to create one of these bikes? We would love to have access to it for our advertising company. Let me know. Michael 305-987-9111.