50 Comments on may 20, 2005 : special report [10min]
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seems like quite a bit is left out here…
Just watched the last week’s worth of episodes. The increase in visual sophistication during the week was startling. This is becoming excellent stuff, kind of like the videophreaks stepping out of a time machine.
staying tuned
elliott
I hope you do a follow-up story on this and let us know what happens.
Please stay on this one! As a victim of police brutality myself, the family needs all the help they can get…
peace.
YES! You guys are so awesome!
Herein is the problem with amateur journalism.
I cringed when I heard Amanda saying “Oh my goodness” in outrage. Are you even considering that this didn’t happen like it’s being told to you?
I’m not saying the story is untrue. But it is irresponsible to present “news” in such a one-sided manner.
There is no accountabilty for accuracy.
When people write that this is the future of journalism, I will point to this example and say that this is precisely why it’s *not.*
Well said Amanda.
It would be interesting to see that video footage. A “picture is worth a thousand words”.
The cops ARE the criminals. Two sides of the same coin, cops and robbers. Total insanity.
these stories make me sick inside and sad. i’m glad you guys have the cojones to cover it.
i love rocketboom’s versatility. good job, amanda & andrew.
This was an awesome story. I like to see this kind of stuff. Corruption needs to be exposed so we can get rid of it.
I love one sided stories. This is what the Internet is all about. Freedom of how you want to do things.
Superb work. You’ve added a serious, spontaneous side to the show (and I disagree, Amanda: while, yes, it’s a “show,” it is true journalism at times — no better represented than today’s special report), and there’s nothing wrong with providing the one side of the story you spontaneously happened upon. (Plus you redeemed yourself by approaching the police — to no avail — afterwards.)I’m glad it was ONE special report — not a seriious as another blogger suggested: that would put “ratings” (sorta) and repeat visits over getting the whole important story out as quickly as possible.
Bravo on it all! And yes, PLEASE do a follow-up.
That should have been “series,” not “seriious” (whatever that means) above. Sorry.
What a disturbing story. Excellent job on the coverage, but it’s a sad commentary for that area of NY or any other are in the US where this type of stuff happens. There has to be a way to keep these abusers accountable so they don’t repeat their actions. This vlog is one step in that direction.
Amanda — Loving the fact that you’re wearing your heart and opinions on your sleeve. Who isn’t biased? The notion that a person with a camera is unbiased is rediculous. I prefer to know the opinion of those who are giving me my news. That’s why I’ve been digging the recent Rocketboom reports. Just be sure to hold onto your wonderful sense of humor . . . You kick ass.
This is the second story I heard about police misconduct this week. A friend of mine. Erzsi Pongo, was coming home from a show we co-host when police ordered her and some homeless men who were on her subway car to step out of the car. They took all of them down and locked them up, cuffed, overnight in transit police cells. My friend did absolutely nothing wrong, but my guess is that the cops were trying to clear out the homeless guys, and she got caught up in it.
The police were rude and verbally abusive, but they didn’t physically attack anyone.
As an aside, Erzsi is caucasian, so if this incident is indicative of anything, skin color isn’t necessarily going to protect white people against police misconduct. At least she wasn’t brutalized like family in this rocketboom piece.
Time to start policing our police and the politiicians who fund and supervise them.
More on Erzsi’s story here.
Amanda has no need to defend herself.
There is always a level of ‘misinterpretation’ that comes with anything and this should be understood.
I’m sure the Rocketboom team understands that us, the viewers, have every right to interpret anything they do or say however we want. However, I think they should be able to expect that we will not disrespect them for this.
Amanda,
This vlog has changed so much (for the better) this past week. You are right in pointing out that this isn’t typical “journalism”, it is something completely different. Unlike major news companies, you can express yourself and your viewpoints truthfully without fear of repercussion. Amazing work, keep it up.
Frankly, I’m disappointed. With this wonderful, insanely powerful tool, you’ve managed to cast a situation in a completely biased light- I would have expected more impartiality from someone like you.
IMHO, you should stick to geeky news- stuff free of these types of divisive topics.
Speaking of geeky fun stuff, where’s the casual Friday?!
Vrogy’s got it all wrong. Of course the geeky news is great, but I’ve loved how you’ve surprised us this week… showing us a more serious side. Everyone is biased. Why should you be impartial when no one really is? Impartiality is BORINGGGGGGGGGGGGG to watch. This episode, as opposed to regular news, was interesting. Keep it up!
This is certainly an interesting experiment. But however willing Amanda is to show her sympathies or biases, she’s really got to lose the “oh my gosh”/”oh my goodness” habit. Just doesn’t sound right. At other points, it seemed as if Amanda was putting words into the alleged victims’ mouths by helping them with their phraseology. Whatever standard of journalism Amanda aspires to, she would be well advised to just stay as much out of the way as possible. Ask very direct questions and let the subject tell the story.
Having lived in the East Village/Lower East side for more than 20 years, I have more than a passing familiarity with police brutality. I am fully aware that cops are capable of egregious misconduct.
I personally found this piece to be one-sided and there are a number of bits that give pause. E.g., the guy who described the severe beating he received after saying that he was going to file a complaint didn’t have a mark on him that I could see. When did this assault allegedly occur?
This kind of presentation does no one any favors for the simple reason that it can too easily be dismissed by the perpetrators and their supporters as one-siided.
I love that when Amanda hears someting that moves her she reacts to it with “Oh my God!” She is human, much different than any other news that many of the other viewers are determined to compare Rocketboom to. We should celebrate that. She is like us, she has feelings and opinions. And I want to know what they are.
Also, I am really getting tired of people asking questions that had already been answered in previous comments.
I love Amanda and Rocketboom.
ROCKETBOOM YEAH!!!
So dumb. First off, if you lined up all the people that claim they were abused by police in NYC, it would extend from coast to coast. I would like to see a follow up on this that shows real evidence of what happened. There are two sides to every story and there is no proof that this story is true. If it is true then they should report it to the internal affairs unit.
My cousin is an NYPD detective and many of my friends are police officers. You people have absolutely no idea what police officers in this city have to deal with walking into domestic dispute situations. In the last few years, several NYC police officers have been killed and severely injured while responding to seemingly simple domestic disturbances.
I would bet a dime to a dollar that the main dude talking in this video has a rap sheet. If you were actually from this city, then you’d know that.
A pair of fine NYPD officers were lost last year while dealing with a domestic violence suspect.
*Detective Robert L. Parker* September 10, 2004
Detective Parker was shot and killed by a suspect in an open domestic violence case when the officer attempted to affect an arrest.
*Detective Patrick H. Rafferty* September 10, 2004
Detective Rafferty was shot and killed by a suspect in an open domestic violence case when the officer attempted to affect an arrest.
Great, I’m now branded a racist because I’d like to hear both sides of the story. I’d like someone also to explain in a rational manner why my point is illogical. Aren’t there two sides to the story?
I stand corrected Amanda. It’s surprising that a fellow NY’er would be so out of touch with the realities faced by the under paid, under appreciated officers of the NYPD.
I’ve spent my life around NY police officers and firefighters. I can honestly say that they rarely get the credit for all the good that they do and all the danger that they face on a daily basis.
Domestic violence situations are very dangerous and very complex. When called to a domestic dispute, police officers have only a few moments to assess situation where people are angry, violent and sometimes under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Dealing with that on a daily basis is no easy task. That’s why I’d like to New York’s Finest to get a fair shake on this one.
Drew,
Boo-Hoo. You chose to post a controversial topic, made it completely biased, then expect not to explain your actions. Give me a break.
Like it or not, “videoblogging” is a form of journalism. The minute you put pen on paper or camers on subject you are creating a document. This new form of “Journalism” is equally valid, but everything has consequences.
You said, “You should know that one of the most inherently popular features of blogging is personal commentary”. That is Commentary Jornalism. Did you ever hear of Bill O’Reilly?
Amanda didn’t come out and say” This is my opinion”. You made the effort of treating this like a “News Story” yet now that you have some backlash, your only defense is We’re really not journalist”. Take some responsibility.
You are a typical liberal, the first thing you do when someone doesn’t agree with you, you call them a racist. That’s bullshit. You pre-judge every police officer, the story is totally biased and you call Rob illogical and a racist. Grow up already. It seems you are the illogical one.
Joe
Hi Guys,
Just wanted to say that I’m really enjoying your work here - keep it up.
You’ve attracted some attention from “across the pond” and we’re hoping to see a lot more of you.
Raist.
Couple notes…
1. Amanda’s presentation was biased.
So what. That’s not a bad thing. Depends on what Amanda’s end goal is.
If Amanda and Co. want people to view their vlog and tell others, this kind of reporting may work. They know (or should know) their traffic stats.
Give the people what they want. One-sided or not. Don’t make this a moral issue of “accurate journalism”.
Side note: when I tell someone a story of something that happened, I usually dramatize it to “sell” the story a bit. Sorry if that’s crass, but it works on my audience!
2. Spark controversy. If you can take a topic and polarize your audience on it and get them to share both sides of a perspective, that’s gold. Most talk show producers know this.
Personally, I love the quirky stuff on the vlog. But, I’m just one guy. I’ll keep coming here as long as I get what I want (quirky commentary by Amanda).
** I think I’m comment #47, so I’d be surprised if anyone is reading this.
Quirky
Yeah, Quirky, we’re still out here. This is pretty interesting stuff.
I’d hit it.
Goo goo ga joob.
Amanda is correct when she says that police have mistreated people in the past. Police officers are people and everywhere you go you’ll find people that are violent, corrupt and abusive. Hopefully those types of police officers get their due by being thrown off the force and prosecuted for violating the laws that they are supposed to uphold.
I’ll stand behind anyone who presents real evidence that they’ve been abused by the police. These folks have presented hearsay. Police cuffing and subduing people does not constitute brutality. The makers of the film were not present when the police arrived and don’t know the full story of what transpired in this case.
If the folks from Rocketboom want to be investigative journalists they should present the full story. This is an incident of alleged brutality. That’s a serious charge. If you’re saying that you believe that members of the NYPD engaged in criminal activity while conducting themselves with these people, then you should take the responsibility of following through on that complaint.
If this is simple a random video blog post meant to inspire discussion, then fine. I’d suggest a vblog of a ride along with real NYPD officers so people don’t get the impression that New York’s Finest are a bunch of thugs. On the contrary, they are the glue that keeps a very complex city together.
I’ll bet some folks will give me the online evil eye for saying this, but…
When I tune in to the vlog, I want entertainment. I have no interest in changing the world. I just want to be entertained. Sometimes a chuckle. Sometimes a provocative thought.
And sometimes… wait for it… to hear tales of victimization. Others’ pain. It’s drawn people to newspapers, TV and freeway crashes for decades.
Again, sorry for being crass.
That’s what rocketboom provides me. Entertainment. That’s what keeps me coming back.
I don’t need both sides of a story to be entertained. I’m either entertained by the presentation. Or I am not.
That’s why I argue against making this a moral issue. If Amanda and Co.’s vlog gets people to make the world a better place, great. If it doesn’t, fine by me.
Quirky
P.S. As for Drew’s pursuit to shine a light on the dark, kudos. I prefer to merely be a spectator (c’mon, admit it, most of us do), but kudos all the same.
One more thought…
Notice how heated this discussion has become?
A community is forming here.
That is gold.
We may not all agree with one another, but this is a great case study of how a community grows.
Excellent stuff. :)
Congratulations on the New York Times article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/22/nyregion/thecity/22weat.html?). You folks have been doing a splendid job.
-Robert
When I saw this I completely was horrified, because the same thing happened to my brother in Texas, even down to the way the wrote the wrong information during booking! Thanks for the awesome presentation of the people’s voice. I noticed that often what happens in mainstream journalism, especially in conservative cities, is that the reporters go to the police and other “authorities” for their version of the story, and leave out the witnesses version of what really happened, thereby reinforcing the distorted story to the public and reinforcing stereotypes - using the news to create a sense of “guilt before proven innocence” in the news.
Okay, to set the record straight for the confused: Vblogging, as stated so well by Amand and Drew in earlier posts is not “journalism.” Just because you’re holding a camera and asking someone a question, it doesn’t mean you’re a reporter. A blog in any form (webblog, podcast, vblog) is a “documentarian” way of looking at, and disseminating the events that unfold before the eyes of the observer. This can include feelings, thoughts, sounds, and images. There is no “balance” required or expected in the context of a documentary such as this. The events shown are indeed “newsworthy,” but Rocketboom’s coverage is not “news.”
One other thing regarding the comment that someone made about Amanda leading her witnesses. As someone who has interviewed people, taped others interviewing people, and helped teach interviewing techniques, I can tell you that there’s nothing wrong with helping a subject by rephrasing a response to your question if it helps to clarify the response. In a situation like this, with emotions running high, it helps if the responses are concise — especially if you have bandwidth issues to contend with ;). Believe me, I’ve seen poor interviewers who did *not* help their subjects end up with (literally) 20 minute repsonses to simple questions.
Good work Rocketboom!
Eric
Drew, you’re not a left-winger?!?! :-0
I personally know too many people who have been mistreated by the NYPD to automatically give the police the benefit of the doubt when I hear accusations like this. No doubt NYC cops have a tough job have a tough job, but it’s up to us citizens, on our own, and through our government, to do a better job of recruiting, training, and overseeing our cops.
People seem to want to know the “second side” to the story. I have been witness to where police officers lose themselves entirely for no reasons beyond the immediate need to release aggression, and violence — in order to exhibit control, and some sort of police comraderie. What triggers these tendencies, are traits we as human beings ALL own. What is wrong with police brutality, and it these acts leave life-long scars, not only on the victims, but in the police officer’s own mind. But what’s worse to me is that such vile acts of aggression towards people that cannot defend themselves is that these acts get defended — and thereby perpetuated.
wow you guys are like mystery inc! amanda is like fred, daphne, shaggy and velma all rolled into one :D but who is scooby?
good show :D
cheers!
Zadi,
Some excellent perspective!
Eric W
Best question you asked:
“Why do you think this happenened?”
The experience of any level of police brutality in NYC, of course, is not unique.
The experience of illogic, inconsistency, and incompetence from the time of arrest to being released from Central Booking is completely normal. You should have seen them struggle with the digital fingerprint scanners when the machines were new.
So what’s unique here? The fact that you bothered to tell their story.
Thanks.
This is how mature the Rocketboom staff is: yesterday I posted something about how Amanda should dump Andrew because of his ignorance in branding someone a racist for asking for both side of the story and this is what he emailed me:
“I deleted your charming
comment. If you want
to discuss Rob’s racist comment, it would be more
effective to leave
a comment over there on the relevant post.”
First let me acknowledge that this is my first exposure to Rocketboom. I am very interested in this effort and am intrigued by my first taste of the fruits. But I do have concerns about this piece.
Let’s clarify definitions: a reporter, according to dictionary.com, is “A writer, investigator, or presenter of news stories.” By that definition, Amanda is clearly acting here as a reporter (if we want to quibble further, the definition of news from the same source is “Information about recent events or happenings, especially as reported by newspapers, periodicals, radio, or television.” Again, that clearly fits here.)
So I hope everyone agrees that, while Amanda may not have agreed to conform to any ethical standard proposed by any organization, journalistic or otherwise, (I’m not saying she’s not ethical, just that she hasn’t committed to meet any specific standard), she is clearly a reporter.
Given that, I have to agree that the issue comes down to intent. If the intent, as Quirky suggests, was pure entertainment and the desire to satsify people’s desire “to hear tales of victimization. Others’ pain.” then so be it. That’s not a goal I’m personally interested in, but I strongly support the right of anyone to say anything they want for any reason (I even have my doubts about the whole crying fire in a crowded theater thing.)
However, if the intent was to present these people’s story as truth, then I think the report falls significantly short. I am skeptical by nature; I’m sorry to admit I do not take people at their word. People have to earn my trust, as I expect to earn theirs. That goes doubly when the matter is as serious as this one.
So my question to Amanda and the producers of Rocketboom is, if you were intending to present this report as truth, what evidence do you have other than these people’s word that it is so?
Just my $0.02.
In any case, I applaud your creative use of this exciting new medium. I just prefer to know where the people who produce the media I consume are coming from (that goes for the MSM as well.)
I’m interested to hear any thoughts here or on my blog.
Regards,
Michele Rosen
I thought this was an appropriate use of both vblogging & rocketboom. They weren’t pretending to be MSM, they were relating a story as someone told it. There is value in that - look at shows like This American Life.
Easy navigation and good design. Lovely little piece of independent mind. Exellent.
Regards from uncle George
To all those people who don’t like Rocketboom’s piece and especially those calling for a follow-up with evidence or NYPD’s side of the story…
Why don’t you investigate it and make a vlog response yourself?
???
Mom tried to stop the cops? How? Amanda completely failed to clarify what happened. We are supposed to believe the family fight was a veritable paradigm of civil discourse, while the cops arbitrariy attacked.
Why do I get the feeling something is missing from this story?